Steering Upgrade Ideas

AssBurns

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Obviously the stock steering racks on pretty much any of our vehicles can't keep up with the abuse we are putting them through. I've seen some guys do the Tundra rack modification, Solo rack, and upcoming Marlin Crawler rack. Not that those are bad options, but they don't help guys that don't have 2nd gen Tacomas.
I'd like to brainstorm some ideas that are a little more universal to any IFS vehicle.

A couple options out there that I know of:
1) Howe, Sweet, Fortin, Tatum, etc Power Rack and Pinions (Universal/Custom/Expensive)
2) Solo, Marlin, Custom Tundra (2nd/3rd Gen Tacoma & 4th/5th Gen 4Runners)
3) Swing Set Steering with a Saginaw box. (Can add hydro assist if wanted and if room permits. Lots of Fab work involved)

I'm leaning towards the 3rd option with the swing set steering and saginaw box. This can potentially eliminate bump steer better than just a rack & pinion since you can make the idler arms swing in the same motion as the steering arm.


A few examples of what I'm thinking about.

Swingset Steering 4.jpgSwingset Steering 5.jpgSwingset Steering 6.jpgSwingset Steering 7.jpg
 

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Coot83

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Man it would be cool to get something developed for the runner platform. The steering rack is probably one of the biggest issues to correct on any vehicle cause of the sizing to make it work.

Are you thinking of doing one of these designs for yours?
 

AssBurns

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Man it would be cool to get something developed for the runner platform. The steering rack is probably one of the biggest issues to correct on any vehicle cause of the sizing to make it work.

Are you thinking of doing one of these designs for yours?
I’m considering it. That’s another reason I haven’t gone 37’s yet. I have a feeling the stock steering rack won’t last more than a few trips. I’ve just gotta figure out what will fit in the area I have to work with. It would be nice to have a heavy duty steering box with some swingers, but packaging makes it a potential issue. I’m sure I could make something fit but the driveshaft might be taking up some space. I need to get under there and take some measurements.
Just go full hydro pussies
Exactly why you went hydro assist on yours...
 

theesotericone

Build It Beat It Break It. Repeat
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Reviving.... @AssBurns Have you made any ground breaking discoveries?

Yep. Our racks and mounts are weak as shit. That's what we've all discovered. Steven was supposed to fix the problem but, well, his rigs not even at his fucking house. lol

I know @rkntoy has made a beefier D-ring. Other then that drive it till it breaks.
 
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Yep. Our racks and mounts are weak as shit. That's what we've all discovered. Steven was supposed to fix the problem but, well, his rigs not even at his fucking house. lol

I know @rkntoy has made a beefier D-ring. Other then that drive it till it breaks.


I'm trying to be optimistic about it and find a good solution to remedy this. SAS is way easier to figure out, but it's also been done 10000x over. This would be a game changer.
 

AssBurns

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Regarding the stock rack? I don’t think there is much that can be done that would be worthwhile. Adding a rack saver with hydro assist could be doable but will the rack actually hold up? Idk.
My thoughts were a swingset steering setup with a Saginaw box but packaging becomes a bit of an issue potentially. Once I get my rig back I’m going to look further into this and see if I can get something stuffed in there.
If I really can’t make it work without getting too wild, I’ll probably just take the easy route and just go full hydro with a PSC 2.5” x 8” double ended ram.
 
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Regarding the stock rack? I don’t think there is much that can be done that would be worthwhile. Adding a rack saver with hydro assist could be doable but will the rack actually hold up? Idk.
My thoughts were a swingset steering setup with a Saginaw box but packaging becomes a bit of an issue potentially. Once I get my rig back I’m going to look further into this and see if I can get something stuffed in there.
If I really can’t make it work without getting too wild, I’ll probably just take the easy route and just go full hydro with a PSC 2.5” x 8” double ended ram.

That doesn't sound like the end of the world to me. For whatever reason I have the notion in my head that the hydro on the road would be a bad idea, but to be honest I hear mixed opinions from all different sides. I wouldn't be opposed to full hydro and that would solve the issue all together. Bomb proof front, beef axles, bomb steering, and IFS.... Sounds like a winner
 

Blender

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I'm seeing space as the primary limitation for off the shelf racks and swing steer. It's just really tight if you're trying to keep existing ground clearance. Ability to move the driveline around a bit will help. I dunno if @AssBurns' LS driveline will yield less or more available steering space.

As far as the stock rack goes, all of the complexity is in the control valve/pinion housing. In theory that could be transferred over to a beef rack body. Would be a lot of cost, but could result in a stock-like footprint with improved mounts and some really sturdy components.

Too big of a project for me to tackle, so I'll keep chugging on my external hydro assist rack.
 

AssBurns

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That doesn't sound like the end of the world to me. For whatever reason I have the notion in my head that the hydro on the road would be a bad idea, but to be honest I hear mixed opinions from all different sides. I wouldn't be opposed to full hydro and that would solve the issue all together. Bomb proof front, beef axles, bomb steering, and IFS.... Sounds like a winner
Yeah I feel the same way about full hydro. If I can’t find a good mechanical w/ hydro assist solution, I’ll just go full hydro. If you do it right it should perform really well and not be stupid twitchy or sketchy on the road.
I'm seeing space as the primary limitation for off the shelf racks and swing steer. It's just really tight if you're trying to keep existing ground clearance. Ability to move the driveline around a bit will help. I dunno if @AssBurns' LS driveline will yield less or more available steering space.

As far as the stock rack goes, all of the complexity is in the control valve/pinion housing. In theory that could be transferred over to a beef rack body. Would be a lot of cost, but could result in a stock-like footprint with improved mounts and some really sturdy components.

Too big of a project for me to tackle, so I'll keep chugging on my external hydro assist rack.
Space is definitely the biggest hurtle. I think I’ll have less space with the bigger transmission being stuffed in there. We’ll see. I really don’t know how I’ll make it work (if I even go that route). The swingset itself wouldn’t be hard to fit; it would be the Saginaw box being stuffed in there and being mounted. I think it’s definitely doable.
 
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I'm seeing space as the primary limitation for off the shelf racks and swing steer. It's just really tight if you're trying to keep existing ground clearance. Ability to move the driveline around a bit will help. I dunno if @AssBurns' LS driveline will yield less or more available steering space.

As far as the stock rack goes, all of the complexity is in the control valve/pinion housing. In theory that could be transferred over to a beef rack body. Would be a lot of cost, but could result in a stock-like footprint with improved mounts and some really sturdy components.

Too big of a project for me to tackle, so I'll keep chugging on my external hydro assist rack.
I refuse to believe that there is no good solution. Full hydro might be it. I want two things: For the orbital to be limited in its ability to keep turning and for my steering to somehow return to center after doing this. If I can implement solutions to those two hurdles then we will be in good shape.

I don't see why we couldn't cram a PSC behind the diff, right where the stock rack goes. Lots of fabrication involved there and I don't know anyone that would ever want to drop the driveline lower, so if anything it would be viable to raise it about 1-2" @AssBurns

I'm starting to DIG

*Edit: After searching, there is a valve here that will allow your orbital to return to center.* https://coreswest.com/full-hydro-orbital-steering-control-valve/
 

Blender

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I refuse to believe that there is no good solution. Full hydro might be it. I want two things: For the orbital to be limited in its ability to keep turning and for my steering to somehow return to center after doing this. If I can implement solutions to those two hurdles then we will be in good shape.

I don't see why we couldn't cram a PSC behind the diff, right where the stock rack goes. Lots of fabrication involved there and I don't know anyone that would ever want to drop the driveline lower, so if anything it would be viable to raise it about 1-2" @AssBurns

I'm starting to DIG

*Edit: After searching, there is a valve here that will allow your orbital to return to center.* https://coreswest.com/full-hydro-orbital-steering-control-valve/

full hydro valves are pretty advanced now from what I read on pirate. Full hydro is the easiest to fit from my measurements and likely the lowest cost solution. Personally, I won't run one on the street and don't have the means to trailer my rig. The inevitable drift of the wheel due to internal leakage would put my cruise control and airbag at risk. Those are features I want to keep. It's not a one size fits all solution.
 

Arcticelf

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The biggest issue, IMO, with full hydro on the street is the lack of a fail safe: if you loose pressure, you loose steering control. That could be fatal at highway speeds, and really expensive on surface roads. Also not a conversation I want to have with an insurance company (mine or theirs).

I think the saginaw box is the right answer, at least for anything that needs to be road-worthy. If my tundra rack pops again I'll probably go that route.
 

AssBurns

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I refuse to believe that there is no good solution. Full hydro might be it. I want two things: For the orbital to be limited in its ability to keep turning and for my steering to somehow return to center after doing this. If I can implement solutions to those two hurdles then we will be in good shape.

I don't see why we couldn't cram a PSC behind the diff, right where the stock rack goes. Lots of fabrication involved there and I don't know anyone that would ever want to drop the driveline lower, so if anything it would be viable to raise it about 1-2" @AssBurns

I'm starting to DIG

*Edit: After searching, there is a valve here that will allow your orbital to return to center.* https://coreswest.com/full-hydro-orbital-steering-control-valve/
Agreed that there is definitely a solution. The issue is finding the solution that has the best performance with the least compromises for your particular situation.

The best for performance would be something like a hydraulic steering rack such as a Fortin, Howe or ProAm rack. Strong, simple, and reliable. Pretty easy to package except for getting creative with the the steering input shaft routing.
The compromise is it's way more expensive.

Full hydro is going to have the overall best strength and easiest to package. Also a decent entry cost even will a full PSC kit. If you get a load reactive, open center orbital valve, you can maintain decent road performance with feedback and centering the steering wheel. Even if you lose pressure with this setup, you can still steer (although not easy) as long as you don't have a leak in the lines. The orbital valve can still provide enough pressure to steer enough to safely get off the road in the case of pump failure. How many of you actually lost a power steering line? I haven't and if you secure the lines properly and get good crimped hoses, you shouldn't have an issue with the lines.
The compromise is there isn't really a failsafe of having mechanical linkage. But in reality this is no different than having a broken drag link or pitman arm failure on a SAS rig.

Saginaw Box/Swing Set + Hydro Assist seems to be a great middle ground. It still provides strong components that have been proven in solid axle rigs for years. Steering box takes way less load with the assist powering you through the rocks n shit. With this you can even get better steering geometry since swingset can follow the arc of the steering arm/spindle to theoretically zero out bump steer (if you design it right). This could be done at a decent cost with junkyard saginaw box and easily available components for swingset steering. Hydro assist would be the most expensive part.
The compromise is packaging. There are more moving parts to stuff under the transmission and mount the saginaw box. This can get more complicated than other options.

Stock steering rack with rack saver + hydro assist. Seems like this could be a good option but I'm still not convinced that the rack could hold up to the abuse even with hydro assist and a rack saver. Between the rack taking the standard abuse and wearing out the seals, or bending the main shaft; or the hydro assist causing undo wear on the rack. The good thing is that even if you blew a line or had pump failure, you would still have the mechanical linkage as a failsafe. I could be over thinking it, but not sure if I want to tackle this project and have it still be a failure down the road.
The compromise is what I mentioned above in my concerns about the stock rack not being able to take abuse.
 

Blender

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Agreed that there is definitely a solution. The issue is finding the solution that has the best performance with the least compromises for your particular situation.

The best for performance would be something like a hydraulic steering rack such as a Fortin, Howe or ProAm rack. Strong, simple, and reliable. Pretty easy to package except for getting creative with the the steering input shaft routing.
The compromise is it's way more expensive.

Full hydro is going to have the overall best strength and easiest to package. Also a decent entry cost even will a full PSC kit. If you get a load reactive, open center orbital valve, you can maintain decent road performance with feedback and centering the steering wheel. Even if you lose pressure with this setup, you can still steer (although not easy) as long as you don't have a leak in the lines. The orbital valve can still provide enough pressure to steer enough to safely get off the road in the case of pump failure. How many of you actually lost a power steering line? I haven't and if you secure the lines properly and get good crimped hoses, you shouldn't have an issue with the lines.
The compromise is there isn't really a failsafe of having mechanical linkage. But in reality this is no different than having a broken drag link or pitman arm failure on a SAS rig.

Saginaw Box/Swing Set + Hydro Assist seems to be a great middle ground. It still provides strong components that have been proven in solid axle rigs for years. Steering box takes way less load with the assist powering you through the rocks n shit. With this you can even get better steering geometry since swingset can follow the arc of the steering arm/spindle to theoretically zero out bump steer (if you design it right). This could be done at a decent cost with junkyard saginaw box and easily available components for swingset steering. Hydro assist would be the most expensive part.
The compromise is packaging. There are more moving parts to stuff under the transmission and mount the saginaw box. This can get more complicated than other options.

Stock steering rack with rack saver + hydro assist. Seems like this could be a good option but I'm still not convinced that the rack could hold up to the abuse even with hydro assist and a rack saver. Between the rack taking the standard abuse and wearing out the seals, or bending the main shaft; or the hydro assist causing undo wear on the rack. The good thing is that even if you blew a line or had pump failure, you would still have the mechanical linkage as a failsafe. I could be over thinking it, but not sure if I want to tackle this project and have it still be a failure down the road.
The compromise is what I mentioned above in my concerns about the stock rack not being able to take abuse.

solid summary of where we stand.

Now everybody needs to build something different and we'll compare notes after.
 

Arcticelf

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Agreed that there is definitely a solution. The issue is finding the solution that has the best performance with the least compromises for your particular situation.


Stock steering rack with rack saver + hydro assist. Seems like this could be a good option but I'm still not convinced that the rack could hold up to the abuse even with hydro assist and a rack saver. Between the rack taking the standard abuse and wearing out the seals, or bending the main shaft; or the hydro assist causing undo wear on the rack. The good thing is that even if you blew a line or had pump failure, you would still have the mechanical linkage as a failsafe. I could be over thinking it, but not sure if I want to tackle this project and have it still be a failure down the road.
The compromise is what I mentioned above in my concerns about the stock rack not being able to take abuse.

This is the solution JD FAB is building for the 2nd/3rd gen.

The other issue, for those of us in the salt-zone, is that boots don't exist for the rack-saver or rack-saver equiped OEM rack. So you're going to need a chromed or nitride treated piston.
 
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