CV Axle Discussion Thread

[Theblackflag]

Bias or radial? I've heard complaints about ride quality with bias but that's to be expected. I went with radial. Once they're on I'll be sure to report back both positive and negative results.

I'm on the fence about keeping my Ridge Grapplers. I could sell them to recoup some cost. Or I could keep them and buy another set of rims thereby incurring more cost. It's probably gonna come down to a coin toss. lol

I believe they are the bias ply but not totally sure, if they are that explains a lot of it. I didn't realize they were even offered in a radial.

 

[AssBurns]

I don't know if you guys are buying shitty replacements, just turning the locker on and thrashing, or what but even considering the terrain your guys have been wheeling lately and the vehicles involved the breakage seems excessive. @theesotericone at this point I can guarantee you will break that stub shaft. Will it happen immediately, no, but its just a matter of time. Shit I started twisting the splines on mine with 265s and an open diff. I am going to reach out to RCV at some point this weak hopefully and see what they say about making a 300M or 4340 stub shaft with.

Think there are a lot of things that have caused CV breakage between the two of us.
1) I think I broke all those inner CV's because of the lack of plunge on the inner tripod joint. I think it is most likely shitty parts that caused this.
2) One of the CV's that @theesotericone broke was when his tie rod broke and his tire turned too far or something and cracked the cup on the outer CV.
3) One of the CV's that @theesotericone broke on Dusy was from 3wd going up a tough section. Stock CV couldn't hang
4) Breaking the cage on the outer CV is pretty common even with wheels turned halfway to full lock. Just get yourself in a situation where you have traction to climb but need a lot of torque to actually climb, and it'll blow an outer cage. Did that this weekend haha

Now that I have a front locker, I am seeing just how week the outer cage really is. A stock CV has a tough time using just one front wheel to pull you over an obstacle.

 

[4runner DOA]

Motino wash damage. I snapped both outers. Stubs and axles look fine so I'll clean those up and keep them as spares.

 

[4runner DOA]

Side note: these are gonna be my coyote repellent in death valley out of the wrist rocket. They like to get close in Butte valley. I'll have my 9mm with hollow points as secondaries.

 

[4runner DOA]

I always forget how much it sucks to clean up an axle for a reboot. 1 down 1 to go. If the rcv axles don't blow up anything major on @theesotericone rig I might consider a pair come tax season.

 

[Hank]

I always forget how much it sucks to clean up an axle for a reboot. 1 down 1 to go. If the rcv axles don't blow up anything major on @theesotericone rig I might consider a pair come tax season.

View attachment 1867

Fuck all that. I'll stick to buying Napa axles. shit. fuck. no. I'd rather drop $100 than pull a fucking boot off.

Part of the beauty of IFS is not having to fuck with pulling locking hubs apart, bearings and grease.

 

[rkntoy]

So since I have a spare laying around I went ahead and pulled the ADD system apart as far as I could without a lot of work to take a more in-depth look at it.

So here's the overall system. Moving from left to right we have...
The ADD stub shaft (also known as intermediate shaft No. 1 in the Toyota parts catalog)
The ADD locking collar (this is what allows for the part time 4wd function on these trucks, depending on what year they were either electronic or vacuum operated, mine be a 98 is vacuum operated.)
ADD actuator housing, top, and the actuator itself, bottom
Axle side intermediate shaft (intermediate shaft No2 in the Toyota catalog.)
ADD tube that then carries the intermediate shaft out to where the CV itself interfaces.

So now the measurements. We have seen on other peoples rigs in the past, Dirtco running Lotus shafts and Big Fish All Day running stock shafts, and myself running stock shafts, that the stub shaft is the next glaring weak link. This stub shaft is also the same size as the CV stub that goes into the diff.

1.100 inch diameter measured on the outside of the splines. We know this has been improved on the RCV CVs by being replaced with 300M steel vs whatever alloy the factory used


On the Opposite side where the ADD locking collar engages. You can also see a large portion of the stub is gun drilled to allow for the locating bearing and shaft that keeps the shaft centered when the ADD is disengaged.


An interesting thing I noticed about both of Dirtcos failures was that shaft appeared to shear at the same spot where the gun drilling stopped and right at the edge of the splines. To me, this indicates a possible structural flaw due to the contours of the splines combined with the gun drilling there that is causing a stress concentration. Or it could just be at the outer limit of the material itself and it isn't capable of supporting the load. These pictures are from his most recent failure

So now the ADD locking collar. Pretty basic here and it measures out to have plenty of spline engagement and spline thickness IMO. I would highly doubt this as being the next failure point after the stub shaft. Unless it somehow cracked clean through essentially exploding the entire collar.

After the ADD collar is the outer intermediate shaft. This shaft is substantially larger in diameter than the stub shaft and it carries this diameter all the way out to where the CV locks into it. I don't see this being much of a concern either since it is not gun drilled which increases the strength some, and is also much larger in diameter. Will it fail? at some point, yes, but most likely not in our use cases

Just after the splines on intermediate shaft No 2.

After seeing these measurements I think there is a strong likely hood the stub shaft is the bottom of the rabbit hole. After that, you will be either breaking the second intermediate shaft, ADD collar, or R&P. But again I don't see either of these failing even with dual cases, 35s, and a front locker on, and if it gets to the point where the R&P is blowing I don't think there's anything to do there. Part of it too is just being very selective about the front locker use. I don't know if you guys are buying shitty replacements, just turning the locker on and thrashing, or what but even considering the terrain your guys have been wheeling lately and the vehicles involved the breakage seems excessive. @theesotericone at this point I can guarantee you will break that stub shaft. Will it happen immediately, no, but its just a matter of time. Shit I started twisting the splines on mine with 265s and an open diff. I am going to reach out to RCV at some point this weak hopefully and see what they say about making a 300M or 4340 stub shaft with.

Thanks for doing this. It is making me want to tear apart my non-ADD Tacoma setup that I carry as a spare.

 

[4runner DOA]

Fuck all that. I'll stick to buying Napa axles. shit. fuck. no. I'd rather drop $100 than pull a fucking boot off.

Part of the beauty of IFS is not having to fuck with pulling locking hubs apart, bearings and grease.

I like having OEM axles over the cheaper ones. They do look/feel beefier than the cheaper ones and I get to inspect them when I rebuild. The 2 I busted had many miles of off road wear and tear on them. Not to mention I've seen how @AssBurns and @theesotericone like to rip through Napa axles. I'll keep the cheap ones as backups.

 

[AssBurns]

I like having OEM axles over the cheaper ones. They do look/feel beefier than the cheaper ones and I get to inspect them when I rebuild. The 2 I busted had many miles of off road wear and tear on them. Not to mention I've seen how @AssBurns and @theesotericone like to rip through Napa axles. I'll keep the cheap ones as backups.

Well, two things here.
1) I watched you blow through two OEM axles within minutes of each other.
2) We are doing much dumber stuff with our rigs than most folks.
3) OEM is probably stronger, but I highly doubt it's enough to justify the added cost compared to $85 lifetime warranty NAPA axles.
4) I said more than two things here...

 

[4runner DOA]

Well, two things here.
1) I watched you blow through two OEM axles within minutes of each other.
2) We are doing much dumber stuff with our rigs than most folks.
3) OEM is probably stronger, but I highly doubt it's enough to justify the added cost compared to $85 lifetime warranty NAPA axles.
4) I said more than two things here...

1) I'll blame @Hank he told me to give it gas when it was obvious both wheels were off the ground and one axle was already toast.
2) That's the goddamn truth.
3) Costs me 50 bucks and a couple hours to reboot 2 axles. Takes away from my video game time, that's about it. haha
4) Yes, yes you fucking did.

 

[Hank]

1) I'll blame @Hank he told me to give it gas when it was obvious both wheels were off the ground and one axle was already toast.
2) That's the goddamn truth.
3) Costs me 50 bucks and a couple hours to reboot 2 axles. Takes away from my video game time, that's about it. haha
4) Yes, yes you fucking did.

1. No I fucking didn't. When and why would I ever say gas it? I was telling your drunk ass to turn passenger and help the winch out. you can't pull winch to the right while your wheels are pointed left.
2. We actually wheel IFS like we are on tons and 40s. fuck you @Mike_taco4x4 for getting scared of wheeling after dusy.
3. I ran Napas the whole time I had my white Tacoma and only broke 2. one my own dumbass fault. the other while snow wheeling and caught a log under the snow while bouncing off the revlimiter in 4 low 2nd gear. I'd been amazed if a RCV would have survived that one.
4. suck a dick danny boy. I miss you.

 

[AssBurns]

1) I'll blame @Hank he told me to give it gas when it was obvious both wheels were off the ground and one axle was already toast.
2) That's the goddamn truth.
3) Costs me 50 bucks and a couple hours to reboot 2 axles. Takes away from my video game time, that's about it. haha
4) Yes, yes you fucking did.

Can't reboot broken axles...

 

[Mike_taco4x4]

1. No I fucking didn't. When and why would I ever say gas it? I was telling your drunk ass to turn passenger and help the winch out. you can't pull winch to the right while your wheels are pointed left.
2. We actually wheel IFS like we are on tons and 40s. fuck you @Mike_taco4x4 for getting scared of wheeling after dusy.
3. I ran Napas the whole time I had my white Tacoma and only broke 2. one my own dumbass fault. the other while snow wheeling and caught a log under the snow while bouncing off the revlimiter in 4 low 2nd gear. I'd been amazed if a RCV would have survived that one.
4. suck a dick danny boy. I miss you.

Lol Dusy was easy for me. Everybody broke something or got body damage except for me.
I got a good feel for this group when I observed Motino wash so I've been secretly wheeling alone because you guys have the following issues.
1. You guys all need spotting on every fukin rock.
2. You guys break cvs all the time. I have never broke one cause I got skills.
3. It takes the group 12 hours to drive .3 miles when I'm not there setting pace up front.
4. Think I got the bulk of the issues on 1-3. Let me know if I missed somwyhing

 

[4runner DOA]

1. No I fucking didn't. When and why would I ever say gas it? I was telling your drunk ass to turn passenger and help the winch out. you can't pull winch to the right while your wheels are pointed left.
2. We actually wheel IFS like we are on tons and 40s. fuck you @Mike_taco4x4 for getting scared of wheeling after dusy.
3. I ran Napas the whole time I had my white Tacoma and only broke 2. one my own dumbass fault. the other while snow wheeling and caught a log under the snow while bouncing off the revlimiter in 4 low 2nd gear. I'd been amazed if a RCV would have survived that one.
4. suck a dick danny boy. I miss you.

I wasn't even hooked up to the winch yet when I broke the second one. Hahaha.

 

[AssBurns]

Lol Dusy was easy for me. Everybody broke something or got body damage except for me.
I got a good feel for this group when I observed Motino wash so I've been secretly wheeling alone because you guys have the following issues.
1. You guys all need spotting on every fukin rock.
2. You guys break cvs all the time. I have never broke one cause I got skills.
3. It takes the group 12 hours to drive .3 miles when I'm not there setting pace up front.
4. Think I got the bulk of the issues on 1-3. Let me know if I missed somwyhing

I think you nailed it. I like groups of 3 or 4 max. It's kinda hard to keep the group small sometimes.

I didn't break anything on Motino or Dusy either. Come try Clawhammer and see where you stand on broken parts. That one is definitely more difficult than Dusy. And Motino is cake now.

I'd been amazed if a RCV would have survived that one.

It would've been your diff or ADD shaft probably.

 

[Mike_taco4x4]

I think you nailed it. I like groups of 3 or 4 max. It's kinda hard to keep the group small sometimes.

I didn't break anything on Motino or Dusy either. Come try Clawhammer and see where you stand on broken parts. That one is definitely more difficult than Dusy. And Motino is cake now.



It would've been your diff or ADD shaft probably.

I shoulda singled you out there. You make everything look too easy from what I've seen so far.lol. I thought you got some body damage on dusy?

 

[Hank]

Lol Dusy was easy for me. Everybody broke something or got body damage except for me.
I got a good feel for this group when I observed Motino wash so I've been secretly wheeling alone because you guys have the following issues.
1. You guys all need spotting on every fukin rock.
2. You guys break cvs all the time. I have never broke one cause I got skills.
3. It takes the group 12 hours to drive .3 miles when I'm not there setting pace up front.
4. Think I got the bulk of the issues on 1-3. Let me know if I missed somwyhing

1. only need spotting because the rocks are bigger than the baseball sized rocks you are used to wheeling
2. I can't argue this point there.... except for you never break one becuase you never use 4wd.
3. this only happens when we invite @theesotericone out to Hammers.
4. only thing you missed was the fact that you are butt buddies with michael from OB and he gave you your ARB Fridge for "Favors"

 

[Hank]

I shoulda singled you out there. You make everything look too easy from what I've seen so far.lol. I thought you got some body damage on dusy?

Oh. shit no. You singled him out becuase I've seen him and his wife break 3 axles the last 2 times I've gone wheeling with them.

 

[rkntoy]

I shoulda singled you out there. You make everything look too easy from what I've seen so far.lol. I thought you got some body damage on dusy?

I think he pushed his rear bumper up in to the body a bit.

 

[Mike_taco4x4]

1. only need spotting because the rocks are bigger than the baseball sized rocks you are used to wheeling
2. I can't argue this point there.... except for you never break one becuase you never use 4wd.
3. this only happens when we invite @theesotericone out to Hammers.
4. only thing you missed was the fact that you are butt buddies with michael from OB and he gave you your ARB Fridge for "Favors"

You wouldn't suck a dick for a arb fridge!? C'mon man they are $1000. That's a deal all day in my book.
How dare you speak to me!... our group leader like this. Your getting a spanking next time I see you.