Lockers (Pro's and Con's of each type)

Blender

Swiftie
Joined
Oct 4, 2018
Messages
2,772
Location
Chandler, AZ
I had some issue with the stock arb smurf line and old style bulkhead fittings. Generally nothing that kept it from operating but it bothered me. New style bulkhead fitting is used and i swapped to a braided line.

After 10 years or so the rear’s internal seals were toast. Full rebuild with all the seals. Front is only 3-4 years old so far, but i suspect it will be on the same timeline

Air lockers are annoying, but i do like them
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
354
Age
54
I guess I'm a rare case but other than the initial issue on ARBs end I've had zero problems with both of mine. I for one would hate having an auto locker up front and even in the rear for snow driving. I like the instant on off the air lockers give me. Are they kinda finicky if you don't set them up right? Absolutely. But done right they last and last in my experiences and are hands down the strongest locker out there.

I have had so many rigs with Detroits front and rear and have driven them all over the place. For me it is not a big deal in compact snow - just something to get used to a little bit.
 

theesotericone

Build It Beat It Break It. Repeat
Fredo Baggins
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
3,494
Location
Bishop, CA
Funny this talk about ARB's leaking should pop up today. I was on the phone with Chase from ECGS for about 20 minutes today. For those that haven't heard it I'll go into the back story.

Nine months ago my almost new ARB RD132, built by ECGS, started to cycle the compressor every 10 seconds. I called ECGS and they sent me a new seal housing kit. Chase pretty much new right away that wasn't my issue though. During our talk he informed me that they had many ARBs coming back that had bad bonded seals. It's internal to the locker and not something most guys can swap out.

I got the new o-rings out of the kit a few days later and pulled my diff. After swapping the o-rings and re-installing it was the same. Cycling every 10 seconds max. I called ECGS and they told me to just send it in. It was summer and wheeling season was just picking up so I tried a plan B. After asking Chase what material the bonded seal was made from, which is a polymer, I decided to just dump some ATP-205 Seal Rejuvinator in the diff.

I put in about 2oz and drove around for a while. After hitting the locker a few times the cycle rate started to slow. Fast forward 2 weeks and the cycle rate went back to normal. WTF? This shit worked.

Fast forward to about 2 months ago when my front RD90 started doing the exact same thing. Actually it was worse. The locker still locked but the cycle rate was constant. Fuck me. I got back on the phone with Chase. He told me to pull it and they'd fix it. I told him I had another idea and if it worked again I'd call him back. Yep. 2oz of APT-205 went in the front diff.

Within days it got better. A couple weeks ago I went on a wheeling trip with @Hank. We hit some snow. Then we hit some more. To make progress I needed both lockers engaged. I was dual locked for a very long time and my compressor only cycled every 5-8 minutes. I can totally live with that. In my mind my "fix" has proven to work.

I called Chase today to inform him of this. He was stoked but insisted that any time I want to have them rebuilt to let him know. During our conversation he let me know that they just got revision 3 of the bonded seal from ARB about a month ago. It seems that even the bonded seals they replaced with ARB's rev 2 seal still had issues. ARB redid the seal and this time they promise it's gonna be good.

So, that's what's going on with ARB lockers. It's not a set-up issue. At least not the one's ECGS are seeing. It's a bad bonded seal that breaks down with heat. That's also why they all pass a bench test and work great when first installed. After the diff heats up the seal starts to deform and looses seal with the housing. As far as ECGS goes, they do 75% of ARBs US sales. I trust them to know what's up. lol
 

4runner DOA

Hold my beer
Staff member
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
15,902
Location
OC
Funny this talk about ARB's leaking should pop up today. I was on the phone with Chase from ECGS for about 20 minutes today. For those that haven't heard it I'll go into the back story.

Nine months ago my almost new ARB RD132, built by ECGS, started to cycle the compressor every 10 seconds. I called ECGS and they sent me a new seal housing kit. Chase pretty much new right away that wasn't my issue though. During our talk he informed me that they had many ARBs coming back that had bad bonded seals. It's internal to the locker and not something most guys can swap out.

I got the new o-rings out of the kit a few days later and pulled my diff. After swapping the o-rings and re-installing it was the same. Cycling every 10 seconds max. I called ECGS and they told me to just send it in. It was summer and wheeling season was just picking up so I tried a plan B. After asking Chase what material the bonded seal was made from, which is a polymer, I decided to just dump some ATP-205 Seal Rejuvinator in the diff.

I put in about 2oz and drove around for a while. After hitting the locker a few times the cycle rate started to slow. Fast forward 2 weeks and the cycle rate went back to normal. WTF? This shit worked.

Fast forward to about 2 months ago when my front RD90 started doing the exact same thing. Actually it was worse. The locker still locked but the cycle rate was constant. Fuck me. I got back on the phone with Chase. He told me to pull it and they'd fix it. I told him I had another idea and if it worked again I'd call him back. Yep. 2oz of APT-205 went in the front diff.

Within days it got better. A couple weeks ago I went on a wheeling trip with @Hank. We hit some snow. Then we hit some more. To make progress I needed both lockers engaged. I was dual locked for a very long time and my compressor only cycled every 5-8 minutes. I can totally live with that. In my mind my "fix" has proven to work.

I called Chase today to inform him of this. He was stoked but insisted that any time I want to have them rebuilt to let him know. During our conversation he let me know that they just got revision 3 of the bonded seal from ARB about a month ago. It seems that even the bonded seals they replaced with ARB's rev 2 seal still had issues. ARB redid the seal and this time they promise it's gonna be good.

So, that's what's going on with ARB lockers. It's not a set-up issue. At least not the one's ECGS are seeing. It's a bad bonded seal that breaks down with heat. That's also why they all pass a bench test and work great when first installed. After the diff heats up the seal starts to deform and looses seal with the housing. As far as ECGS goes, they do 75% of ARBs US sales. I trust them to know what's up. lol

Yep, that's what we heard from one of our local guys that deals with building axles. Bonded seal, bad batches, blahblahblah. ARB never announced it publicly but I've now heard the same story from 2 different sources. @PermaBan has had 2 from bad batches. We've been trying to make the stars align so we can install #3 but weather and plans haven't been making it easy. The only reason I know that's not my issue is because I got a full year out of mine and other than gear oil in my air line, which I may have twisted an oring when I replaced the first copper line, it's worked flawlessly.
 

Theblackflag

Mall Crawler
Vendor
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
140
Age
25
Location
Bozeman MT
For what its worth if you have the ability to reset backlash the bonded seal isnt a big deal to replace. It just requires pulling the ring off. In the front diff its even easier since the backlash won't change. Before I installed my front diff I pulled it all apart to give it a once over since I bought it used with an unknown history. Here's what I found.
IMAG0763 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMAG0754 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr

Took all of two bolts to split the case open and access the seal. It's a pretty simple seal too, solid polymer base with two raised o ring style lips that seal against the case.

Everything looked as I would expect with no issues. Quick call to ARB to look up the serial number because I was curious when the locker was made, turns out it was manufactured in June of 2005, so that's a 14-year-old seal and what I would assume is REV 1. Never had an issue with it though. My rear locker was also made sometime in late 2017, setup by ECGS, and had the bonded piston seal replaced under warranty because they found "machining chips" in the case causing it to only leak when the locker fully engaged but it passed a standard bench test fine. The only time I ever have my compressor cycle now is either when I engage the lockers or when it's 20 below, then the compressor cycles about once every 15 minutes, but at that kind of temperature I don't expect everything to seal properly anyway just due to tolerances changing.
 

theesotericone

Build It Beat It Break It. Repeat
Fredo Baggins
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
3,494
Location
Bishop, CA
2wd on street tire problems. @Itaro almost got stuck too. That mud was slick as shit after a weekend of boozing.

Yeah, mud sucks.

LH7rTSl.jpg
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
2,061
Everyone I wheel with that has ARBs has leaks. Why I went with an Aussie in front of mine and a Spartan in Carson's Taco.

The TrueTrac isn't bad - way better than a clutch type LS. What are you using the rig for?

With the TrueTracs you can fake them in to locking up by riding the brake a little. Much easier with an auto. That said, I paired one in the front with a Detroit Locker in back in one of my 1st Gen 4runners and it worked pretty well.
I just want my truck to be a little better than stock. I don't really do any hardcore rock crawling. I'm more of an easy/medium trail person. Hardest trail I've done was Swansea-Cerro Gordo Trail/Road, which wasn't really hard, but it had its challenges with really loose dirt/rock in some places along with simple "rock crawling" spots here and there. Overall, super fun trail though.

Anyways, I just want to upgrade a bit better than open diff, which is currently what I have.

This is vid I took on that trail and is only the start of that trail... HAHAHA I still had MILES to get to the end of the trail.

Please disregard my retarded 2wd comments, it explains it in the video. I'm still learning new things wheeling, I was alone, and a little intimidated... but I did the whole trail by myself... about 31mi of it, if I remember right? All I know is that it took me about 6hrs or thereabouts???

Anyways, this is part of the trail start... and for the record, the video does no justice, it's actually a little bit of an incline, not steep, but a fairly good incline nonetheless...
 

85straight

Starbucks gold card holder
Joined
Oct 4, 2018
Messages
549
Location
Menifee,Ca
I just want my truck to be a little better than stock. I don't really do any hardcore rock crawling. I'm more of an easy/medium trail person. Hardest trail I've done was Swansea-Cerro Gordo Trail/Road, which wasn't really hard, but it had its challenges with really loose dirt/rock in some places along with simple "rock crawling" spots here and there. Overall, super fun trail though.

Anyways, I just want to upgrade a bit better than open diff, which is currently what I have.

This is vid I took on that trail and is only the start of that trail... HAHAHA I still had MILES to get to the end of the trail.

Please disregard my retarded 2wd comments, it explains it in the video. I'm still learning new things wheeling, I was alone, and a little intimidated... but I did the whole trail by myself... about 31mi of it, if I remember right? All I know is that it took me about 6hrs or thereabouts???

Anyways, this is part of the trail start... and for the record, the video does no justice, it's actually a little bit of an incline, not steep, but a fairly good incline nonetheless...
You daily your truck? If not throw a spartan or other cheaper locker in there and call it good. A Toyota Elocker would fit the bill nicely since you would rarely “need” it
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
1,279
Age
41
Location
Mississippi
I'm on my third ARB RD 129 for 8.4 rear diff in a year and this one is leaking now . All have had the bonded seal issue. I have talked to Chase at East coast gear supply several times. there were 3 different seals in the last year and1/2. I had all of them and they were all supposed to fix the issue.

I have been waiting since the middle Feburary for the new seal which is supposed to be made in Germany and fix the problem. I have heard that shit before

I haven't had any problems with my front ARB locker but The more I think about it I don't even want an ARB locker or this one fixed. I"m done with ARB I have no confidence it will work when I need It to
I would love to have a TJM air locker but ECGS doesn't offer them.

I'm Going to call them next week but I still haven't decided to pay an extra $450 for a Harrop or Get $300 back and stick a Detroit in it.
I only drive it to and from trails but sometimes it's across the country 20+ hours like Moab

I Have to Give East coast gear supply props their customer service has been awesome through all of this
 
Last edited:

4runner DOA

Hold my beer
Staff member
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
15,902
Location
OC
I'm on my third ARB RD 129 for 8.4 rear diff in a year and this one is leaking now . All have had the bonded seal issue. I have talked to Chase at East coast gear supply several times. there were 3 different seals in the last year and1/2. I had all of them and they were all supposed to fix the issue.

I have been waiting since the middle Feburary for the new seal which is supposed to be made in Germany and fix the problem.

I haven't had any problems with my front ARB locker but The more I think about it I don't even want an ARB locker or this one fixed. I"m done with ARB I have no confidence it will work when I need It to
I would love to have a TJM air locker but ECGS doesn't offer them.

I'm Going to call them next week but I still haven't decided to pay an extra $450 for a Harrop or Get $300 back and stick a Detroit in it.
I only drive it to and from trails but sometimes it's across the country 20+ hours like Moab

@PermaBan is on his 3rd 8.4 too. We haven't installed it yet though. I haven't had any bonded seal issues with my 8" ARB in 2 1/2 years. Copper lines now, well that's just been install error.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
1,279
Age
41
Location
Mississippi
@PermaBan is on his 3rd 8.4 too. We haven't installed it yet though. I haven't had any bonded seal issues with my 8" ARB in 2 1/2 years. Copper lines now, well that's just been install error.
Is It the one that has only been out a few weeks thats made in Germany? I hope it works forever for @PermaBan but If it isn'the the newest seal he will probably have the issue again
 
Top Bottom