Outboard Rear Shock Ideas

[theesotericone]

OK Gents. Here's the deal. My rear lower shock mounts are getting torn apart. I'm over it and am seriously considering outboading them. The idea it to mount them at the center of rear axle. Then kick them forward or backwards with new shock towers mounted to the frame.

Let's see some photo's of your outboards. Let's also tell me why this is a horrible idea that will never work. lol

 

[AssBurns]

OK Gents. Here's the deal. My rear lower shock mounts are getting torn apart. I'm over it and am seriously considering outboading them. The idea it to mount them at the center of rear axle. Then kick them forward or backwards with new shock towers mounted to the frame.

Let's see some photo's of your outboards. Let's also tell me why this is a horrible idea that will never work. lol

First, let me tell you not why it won’t work, but why it’ll be extremely hard.

1. The rear axle has major rear steer causing the back side of the tire to to be pushed closer to the frame rails than the front of the tire. That’s why most of us ran the shocks forward of the axle, there’s just more room to fit shocks.
2. Depending on the length and diameter of shocks, just fitting the shocks in between the tire and frame is super hard to clear at droop (clearing the frame) and bump (clearing the tire). If you want to move the lower mounts up, you’ll have to move the upper mounts higher into the wheel well. Well there is two things wrong with that. One is that the tire needs room to Stuff into the wheel well. Two, is that the pivot point of the shock is now higher, so the amount the shock body moves near the frame rails is quite a bit more, meaning you’ll have to do more than just notch the frame.

You could keep the upper mount low and just run a really high angle but that will make ride quality sucks and exponentially worse for higher speed stuff. It’s better to run them inboard at that point.

 

[theesotericone]

First, let me tell you not why it won’t work, but why it’ll be extremely hard.

1. The rear axle has major rear steer causing the back side of the tire to to be pushed closer to the frame rails than the front of the tire. That’s why most of us ran the shocks forward of the axle, there’s just more room to fit shocks.
2. Depending on the length and diameter of shocks, just fitting the shocks in between the tire and frame is super hard to clear at droop (clearing the frame) and bump (clearing the tire). If you want to move the lower mounts up, you’ll have to move the upper mounts higher into the wheel well. Well there is two things wrong with that. One is that the tire needs room to Stuff into the wheel well. Two, is that the pivot point of the shock is now higher, so the amount the shock body moves near the frame rails is quite a bit more, meaning you’ll have to do more than just notch the frame.

You could keep the upper mount low and just run a really high angle but that will make ride quality sucks and exponentially worse for higher speed stuff. It’s better to run them inboard at that point.

If the shock clears the tires when fully articulated I think there is enough room to move the lower mount up then create a shock tower for the upper mount. I guess the question is will it clear and if it does will that shock tower end up in my cargo area.

 

[AssBurns]

If the shock clears the tires when fully articulated I think there is enough room to move the lower mount up then create a shock tower for the upper mount. I guess the question is will it clear and if it does will that shock tower end up in my cargo area.

You can see how close the shock is to the tire here. Any further up, it’ll start getting closer. I’m sure you could get it a little higher up but idk how much further you could get

Edit: having trouble posting images from my phone for some reason Edit 2: fixed

 

[eimkeith]

will that shock tower end up in my cargo area.

If you aren't notching the frame, then yes. (and even then, probably)

I've attached 2 screenshots showing what I mean - this is a 2.0 shock, positioned so it will clear the stock wheel and not get into the lower seat structure. Any higher, and it's going into the cabin, and any further outboard will require spacers and additional height (as it will be more vertical.)

This was modeled using the shortest body (so shortest overall collapsed length) 11.5" shock available - and the axle end mount is at the same height as the factory setup to achieve this.

If the mount went above the axle, it would add about 5" of height to the upper mount. Add to that the collapsed height delta between this shock (16.1") and Kings, and you're talking major towers.

[FWIW, I'm working on a slight redesign so as to use Fox 11" (17.1" collapsed length) as an alternative shock, hence the generic look of the modeling at the moment..]

 

[DuroBumps]

So Why cant we do something like this. I have this fucking RC Car that makes the job look doable...

Whats the deal with this, Why cant we make something that works on our trucks that allows to run the shocks horizontal.

I have though about this for a long time. Is there a blatant obvious reason this cant happen that Im missing??

 

[AssBurns]

So Why cant we do something like this. I have this fucking RC Car that makes the job look doable...

Whats the deal with this, Why cant we make something that works on our trucks that allows to run the shocks horizontal.

I have though about this for a long time. Is there a blatant obvious reason this cant happen that Im missing??

Packaging constraints and production costs are the first things that come to mind haha. Imagine how much that would cost

 

[DuroBumps]

I dont think the expense would be to crazy.

I have a laser cutting shop that would cut all our components. This would only be a few hundred $

The bearings for the Cam would probably be around $150 each. Need 2

linkage connecting the cam to the axle. In my mind this would be made out of thick wall DOM tubing with Hiem joints on the ends. Very similar to a Rear Lower Link.



So If cost is the hold up I could be on to something here!! please shoot down my idea before it consumes more of my time that I cant afford to put into another new project.


I think this is something I could CAD design or what would be even better is to get @eimkeith on board because he is much better with CAD then I am. Once we have the file I send it out to have our parts cut up. once its all ready we weld it togethor and make it a bolt-application.

 

[DuroBumps]

I can do the cam, and linkage. I would need someone smarter than me to figure out the shock and spring rate.

The horizontal shocks would be mounted horizontal forward of the rear axle. With all you guys that relocated your gas tank you have tons of room to work with

One really nice thing about using a cam is that it does not have to be a 1:1 ratio.

 

[AssBurns]

The expense would be the custom spindles, CV axles, brakes, differential, driveshaft, materials, the time and effort for R&D.

Packaging might be doable but it’ll take a ton of effort and money to get right

 

[DuroBumps]

I see what your talking about. Im not wanting to do an independent rear suspension setup. I want to keep the Factory Rear axle

 

[AssBurns]

I see what your talking about. Im not wanting to do an independent rear suspension setup. I want to keep the Factory Rear axle

You talking about a cantilever rear end? Google it, there are a ton of guys doing that. It’s just a little more complicated to setup properly

 

[eimkeith]

and you'd definitely want an engineer on board for this sort of thing - lots of stresses in multiple planes at that point. Worth it for $5K trucks?

 

[DuroBumps]

Just looked it up. Yes thats what Im talking about. Why cant we fabricate a bolt on Kit?? I would think Your rear bumper and Kieths gas tank relocate kit would need to be used in tandem but I think there is going to be a big market for all that once we can spread the word, package up a Kit and create an instruction sheet that makes the consumer feel the project can be done in Moms driveway.

I can picture a few simple cross members being made that could bolt to the frame that the coilover shocks would bolt to and the CAM is easy to mass produce. the link that attaches the axle to the cam could be bolt on with inverted U-bolts

 

[eimkeith]

Just looked it up. Yes thats what Im talking about.

link?

( - yes, Steven, I'm lazy.)

 

[DuroBumps]

link?

( - yes, Steven, I'm lazy.)

https://www.google.com/search?q=can...c7ooe3dAhXrhFQKHT0TDAsQ9QEwBXoECAMQDA#imgrc=_

 

[miles.less.traveled]

Yep. Here are mine!


2.5 fox 12" (measured at 13.27") travel piggybacks that @snivilous and I jammed into my wheel wells earlier this spring.

 

[eimkeith]

how far below the axle is your lower mount there?

 

[miles.less.traveled]

how far below the axle is your lower mount there?

trying to upload pictures but its being a bastard for some reason. I utilized the stock lower mounting arms coming off the bottom of the axle. we cut the stud thing off and welded on 3" long shock tabs facing forward as low as we could on the arm

 

[theesotericone]

Yep. Here are mine!

That is exactly what I was thinking except I'm going to try and go rearward with them. It just looks like there's more room back there to get them higher.

I'm going to guess you've wheeled it a bit since then. Any problems with contact at full articulation? What size tires are you running and how wide are your spacers?