Shock Tech

[IEatA$$]

Didn't see a thread for general shock technical talk. Figured why not start one? I hope this is the appropriate place.

What do you run and why? Vehicle, shock manufacture, size, adjusters?

Let's get into the details. What is your experiences between different companies? What changes have you made and what was the result?

I'll go first...
I run Fox 2.5" on all 4 corners of my 2011 Tacoma. OE replacement 2.5" up front and 2.5x12" w/ DSC in the rear. I'm now on my 3rd rendition of my front valving and 2nd, soon to be 3rd, on my rear.

My second rendition for the front was just a piston swap. Figured I'd make small changes so I could see what the difference is. I recently went to a flutter to give that a try and 14" Eibach 650lbs springs. Only one trip on the dirt with the new setup so I don't have a set direction for my next change.

The rears I went from a #90 to a #70 on compression but they still feel too stiff for my liking. I'm going to try a flutter on the rear here soon and go to a 1" shorter eyelet for more bump travel because, "Race Truck."

I have also helped tear into a good friends Icon's to check their stuff out. I didn't take many notes so I don't have too much input on the digressive valving but he wants to tear into them again so I'll do a better job this time.




EDIT BY @AssBurns :

Some good articles for shock valving.

Stack Styles

Damping Profiles

The Ohlins Guy

 

[4runner DOA]

Good topic. I'll get into my changes tomorrow. Keep in mind we aren't Tacoma specific here. Nor ever Toyota specific. Should be some good stories floating around this forum for shocks.

 

[IEatA$$]

Good topic. I'll get into my changes tomorrow. Keep in mind we aren't Tacoma specific here. Nor ever Toyota specific. Should be some good stories floating around this forum for shocks.

Yeah, it'll be a little bit of an adjustment from my shock experience but it's all the same theory. It'll be interesting to hear about different vehicle setups.

 

[PermaBan]

Didn't see a thread for general shock technical talk. Figured why not start one? I hope this is the appropriate place.

What do you run and why? Vehicle, shock manufacture, size, adjusters?

Let's get into the details. What is your experiences between different companies? What changes have you made and what was the result?

I'll go first...
I run Fox 2.5" on all 4 corners of my 2011 Tacoma. OE replacement 2.5" up front and 2.5x12" w/ DSC in the rear. I'm now on my 3rd rendition of my front valving and 2nd, soon to be 3rd, on my rear.

My second rendition for the front was just a piston swap. Figured I'd make small changes so I could see what the difference is. I recently went to a flutter to give that a try and 14" Eibach 650lbs springs. Only one trip on the dirt with the new setup so I don't have a set direction for my next change.

The rears I went from a #90 to a #70 on compression but they still feel too stiff for my liking. I'm going to try a flutter on the rear here soon and go to a 1" shorter eyelet for more bump travel because, "Race Truck."

I have also helped tear into a good friends Icon's to check their stuff out. I didn't take many notes so I don't have too much input on the digressive valving but he wants to tear into them again so I'll do a better job this time.

View attachment 3461

Just curious are you extended or mid travel up front ? I’m sending mine out for rebuild here soon and having them remove the shims to make them extend travel

 

[AssBurns]

How come you did a piston swap on your second round? New piston design? Bigger/smaller bleed holes?

 

[EL Maggot]

awesome thread, interested to learn more about these shock being that my knowledge on Tuning/set up's is pretty basic.
Rear's im running Fox 2.5x14 smoothie's w/adjuster's in the rear. basically this is what was recommended for my set up and after researching they had the longer extended length which i wanted so the shock isn't my limiting factor.
Fronts i've been running Icons 2.5 extended for about 4yrs now and been happy with them but really need to get them tuned or something to keep with the rear better. I'm thinking 700# x14 spring would help (i have a hidden winch installed) but don't know what tuning can be done if any with the Icons. Any Ideas?

 

[EL Maggot]

Just curious are you extended or mid travel up front ? I’m sending mine out for rebuild here soon and having them remove the shims to make them extend travel

He has stock length up front. Extended would be mid-travel.

 

[IEatA$$]

Just curious are you extended or mid travel up front ? I’m sending mine out for rebuild here soon and having them remove the shims to make them extend travel

Im extended length. Extended and mid travel are equivalent from my understanding. You have “standard” travel or “extended” travel in OE replacement. It’s only .4-.5” difference between shock travel, which translates to more at the wheel.

 

[IEatA$$]

How come you did a piston swap on your second round? New piston design? Bigger/smaller bleed holes?

New piston design. Same bleed. Just wanted to try it out and see if I felt a difference.

 

[AssBurns]

New piston design. Same bleed. Just wanted to try it out and see if I felt a difference.

And did you notice any difference?

 

[IEatA$$]

awesome thread, interested to learn more about these shock being that my knowledge on Tuning/set up's is pretty basic.
Rear's im running Fox 2.5x14 smoothie's w/adjuster's in the rear. basically this is what was recommended for my set up and after researching they had the longer extended length which i wanted so the shock isn't my limiting factor.
Fronts i've been running Icons 2.5 extended for about 4yrs now and been happy with them but really need to get them tuned or something to keep with the rear better. I'm thinking 700# x14 spring would help (i have a hidden winch installed) but don't know what tuning can be done if any with the Icons. Any Ideas?

You kept your shocks under the bed didn’t you?

Does the longer collapsed length limit your bump travel? I’m assuming not because you’re running the Archive kit but it has to be damn close.

I’m actually going to say no to the 14” 700. If you have a winch, go 650 but 700# will be harsh with your setup. You can tune Icons, they just have very different drive characteristics than progressive style shocks and people typically don’t.

 

[IEatA$$]

And did you notice any difference?

Yes, I can’t really explain it but I did. It wasn’t a huge difference though.

 

[4runner DOA]

I've been through 3 different sets of shocks.

Started out on 5100s all the way around with 885s up front and Superflex 2" coils in the rear. I found out really quickly that the rear 5100s won't work with a 2" lift and promptly switched to Icon 2.0s with remote resi and Metal Tech LT 2" coils.

Surprisingly the 5100/885 in front and Icon 2.0s in the rear paired well and I ran that setup for a year while I got my feet wet (dirty?) in the 4wd scene. Since I was mostly with larger groups at the time there were never really high speed opportunities and the combination worked well for what I was doing. Ran that set up for about a year.

Then I picked up Icon 2.5 non resi for the fronts with 650 lb coils. I was starting to do more high speed jaunts across the desert as much as the occasional 4wd required trails and felt like I needed to pair the front with the rear with similar valving to balance things out. Worked well and smoothed things out at higher speeds. Eventually moved to 700 lb coils because I added the front bumper/winch combination and I had to add way too much preload to the 650s (they were 13" vs 14" 700s) to keep my nose up which made things really fucking stiff in the front. 700s helped tremendously. In my experience the Icons worked just great and I had people ride in the 4runner that were incredibly surprised at how smooth they were. The problem didn't really started until I added front/rear bumpers.

Since I was running a 2.5 non resi in the front and a 2.0 w/ resi in the rear the shocks were having a hard time with the amount of weight I added. My plan had always been to start playing with valving on the Icons but they were getting far too hot even after just an hour of high speed across the desert during the Mojave Road trip last April. Coupled with the fact that my rears couldn't keep up with the front and I was bucking like crazy on stupid shit because of all the weight I added, it was time to start looking at the next step.

Everyone and their grandma's was running Kings. The Overland stigma was taking over and I wanted something that would set me apart from that. Enter the ADS 2.5s with resi race shocks.

I've only had them in dirt once since I put them on but I can say holy fuck what a difference between ADS and Icons. The ADS shocks are definitely valved softer, or maybe that's the digressive vs progressive. They just handle the terrain smoother, even at higher speeds. My rear is almost too soft so we'll be looking at the valving/shims to tighten that up a bit, but the front is damned near perfect. I'll report back after I've had some more time to break them in and hopefully get the rear adjusted for the weight I carry.

 

[EL Maggot]

You kept your shocks under the bed didn’t you?

Does the longer collapsed length limit your bump travel? I’m assuming not because you’re running the Archive kit but it has to be damn close.

I’m actually going to say no to the 14” 700. If you have a winch, go 650 but 700# will be harsh with your setup. You can tune Icons, they just have very different drive characteristics than progressive style shocks and people typically don’t.

Ya shocks stayed under the bed with the archive shock relocation. want to say i'm just under 1" of shaft left at full bump can't find that pic but here's this.


That's kinda what i was worried about going 700#. The icons already come with 650's from what iv'e read and like you said Digressive aren't very common to tune so not much info out there that i've found. Thank you for the info though.

 

[AssBurns]

I've been through 3 different sets of shocks.

Started out on 5100s all the way around with 885s up front and Superflex 2" coils in the rear. I found out really quickly that the rear 5100s won't work with a 2" lift and promptly switched to Icon 2.0s with remote resi and Metal Tech LT 2" coils.

Surprisingly the 5100/885 in front and Icon 2.0s in the rear paired well and I ran that setup for a year while I got my feet wet (dirty?) in the 4wd scene. Since I was mostly with larger groups at the time there were never really high speed opportunities and the combination worked well for what I was doing. Ran that set up for about a year.

Then I picked up Icon 2.5 non resi for the fronts with 650 lb coils. I was starting to do more high speed jaunts across the desert as much as the occasional 4wd required trails and felt like I needed to pair the front with the rear with similar valving to balance things out. Worked well and smoothed things out at higher speeds. Eventually moved to 700 lb coils because I added the front bumper/winch combination and I had to add way too much preload to the 650s (they were 13" vs 14" 700s) to keep my nose up which made things really fucking stiff in the front. 700s helped tremendously. In my experience the Icons worked just great and I had people ride in the 4runner that were incredibly surprised at how smooth they were. The problem didn't really started until I added front/rear bumpers.

Since I was running a 2.5 non resi in the front and a 2.0 w/ resi in the rear the shocks were having a hard time with the amount of weight I added. My plan had always been to start playing with valving on the Icons but they were getting far too hot even after just an hour of high speed across the desert during the Mojave Road trip last April. Coupled with the fact that my rears couldn't keep up with the front and I was bucking like crazy on stupid shit because of all the weight I added, it was time to start looking at the next step.

Everyone and their grandma's was running Kings. The Overland stigma was taking over and I wanted something that would set me apart from that. Enter the ADS 2.5s with resi race shocks.

I've only had them in dirt once since I put them on but I can say holy fuck what a difference between ADS and Icons. The ADS shocks are definitely valved softer, or maybe that's the digressive vs progressive. They just handle the terrain smoother, even at higher speeds. My rear is almost too soft so we'll be looking at the valving/shims to tighten that up a bit, but the front is damned near perfect. I'll report back after I've had some more time to break them in and hopefully get the rear adjusted for the weight I carry.

Any idea what spring you have up front in your ADS Coilovers? Length and spring rate?

 

[4runner DOA]

Any idea what spring you have up front in your ADS Coilovers? Length and spring rate?

14" 700s in the front. Between the dual batteries, the bumper, winch, and steel skid I really needed the 700 to handle the weight.

 

[AssBurns]

14" 700s in the front. Between the dual batteries, the bumper, winch, and steel skid I really needed the 700 to handle the weight.

Yeah sounds like 700’s are a good match for all your weight.
That’s good to hear that your current valving is good out of the box. One of these days you should take it apart and see what valve stack the Coilovers are running. I know @Hank was having issues with ADS not wanting to give out what valve stack came in his Coilovers. He needs to pull them apart and see so he can make adjustments in whatever direct he needs

 

[4runner DOA]

Yeah sounds like 700’s are a good match for all your weight.
That’s good to hear that your current valving is good out of the box. One of these days you should take it apart and see what valve stack the Coilovers are running. I know @Hank was having issues with ADS not wanting to give out what valve stack came in his Coilovers. He needs to pull them apart and see so he can make adjustments in whatever direct he needs

We talked about that a bit at my house a few weeks ago. @Hank said my valving is in the resi instead of the shock body like his is. So it's probably different. I may actually need stiffer coils in the rear. I had heard the metal tech heavy coils don't handle weight as well as say the icon overland coils (no I won't get the fucking overland coils) because it's a lower coil rate. 3" coil and I'm sitting at about 2" because of all the weight. Either way I'm running the set up as is for the next couple trips. I probably only have about 800 miles total on the setup and the majority of that is street.

 

[AssBurns]

We talked about that a bit at my house a few weeks ago. @Hank said my valving is in the resi instead of the shock body like his is. So it's probably different. I may actually need stiffer coils in the rear. I had heard the metal tech heavy coils don't handle weight as well as say the icon overland coils (no I won't get the fucking overland coils) because it's a lower coil rate. 3" coil and I'm sitting at about 2" because of all the weight. Either way I'm running the set up as is for the next couple trips. I probably only have about 800 miles total on the setup and the majority of that is street.

Nah his valving is in the shock body on the shock shaft like any other shock. It’s the dividing piston that’s in the reservoir instead of the shock body. Same as any other remote resi shock. Most quality shocks as far as I know are either IFP (Internal Floating Piston) or Remote Resi with the Floating Piston in the resi.

 

[4runner DOA]

Nah his valving is in the shock body on the shock shaft like any other shock. It’s the dividing piston that’s in the reservoir instead of the shock body. Same as any other remote resi shock. Most quality shocks as far as I know are either IFP (Internal Floating Piston) or Remote Resi with the Floating Piston in the resi.

I have resi's, he doesn't. Whatever it is, Kyle told me it would be easier to revalve mine than his because I have resis.