Shock Tech

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Thankfully I lurk into more than only pic threads. So maybe I can actually learn something. Might not like the outcome, but hey!

I got my fronts from DSM. When I called to order them they swapped in the 700# springs and sent them out the same day. Knowing very little about valving(which I still have extremely limited knowledge) I wondered how they could use the same valving with the two different spring rates.
I know even less, but this is interesting.

As much as tw annoys me there is good info there. Just need to get more of that info here.

View attachment 41579
Fuck. :sad:I mean, probably. But it makes sense
To get the same exact outcome there would need to be a change, but the shock can have enough power to still be able to control a small spring rate change.
50lbs rate change if you didn't change the weight of the truck. 100lbs if you did change the weight of the truck.
Maybe there's hope for me and my mall crawler set up.


First off, in my current situation, there is no way in hell that I'll get into shock tuning. Which could actually be a good thing for my wallet. But that's basically it.
Anyways. I bought my kings through @Eccracer104 a while ago, and ordered them with 650# coils. I opted to get them with adjusters, figured it'll be a good idea to add extra $ to already high price. Since then things changed dramatically, I got fat, truck got heavier than expected. Because of that last year @Arcticelf swapped my coils for 700# ones, and previous to that I also converted my medium Dahars to HD. Since (like an idiot) I run without sway bar, this move helped with cornering stability.
But... It all makes me wonder how much better things could be if my shocks would get tuned for my actual set up. How much messing around with adjusters help my cause? I understand it's somewhat global adjustment, and atm not sure how precise it is. I just know it makes a difference in on road characteristics when loaded up.
Obviously it's drivable, so I guess it ain't all that bad, right?
 
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dirtyjerz
Wouldn't that be appropriate with a spring of a high spring rate?
Specifically based on spring rate and not taking vehicle weight into consideration, idk. Probably not that much of a difference. Vehicle weight has a much bigger effect relatively. Just never seen a rebound stack stiffer than the compression stack so i assumed it was backwards but then again the shim count says otherwise o_O
Excited to learn whats going on there once someone figures it out
 

4runner DOA

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Specifically based on spring rate and not taking vehicle weight into consideration, idk. Probably not that much of a difference. Vehicle weight has a much bigger effect relatively. Just never seen a rebound stack stiffer than the compression stack so i assumed it was backwards but then again the shim count says otherwise o_O
Excited to learn whats going on there once someone figures it out
Sent an email to ADS because I haven't had time to call and hash it out. Hopefully I get a response in a day or two.
 

4runner DOA

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Karl that used to be the shock tuning and rebuilds guy at ADS is thug nasty with it so if he had a part in that valving it's more likely some fancy shit going on. Guess we'll see
Thought the tuning guy's name was Keith? Either way if I don't get an answer by Friday afternoon I'll call next Monday. Project I'm on is about done so I'll have some free time by then. I'd rather get initial thoughts from them than playing with shims until I get it right.
 
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To fill yall in a lil on the basic basics.. shocks just take the kinetic energy of your vehicle smackin stuff at speed and use the hydraulic resistance of the shims to transfer it to thermal energy in the shock oil. That energy radiates out of the shock instead of passing on to the chassis. This is why you generally don't see lil yotas on huge shocks because the vehicle doesn't have enough weight to heat up the oil in those shocks with reasonable valving.
Shocks cold during their usual use - too big/stiff, not doing enough work (in literal sense of the word work)
Shocks hot during usual use - too small/soft, doing too much work
Way more details to it in the nitty gritty but thats the idea behind it
 
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Thought the tuning guy's name was Keith? Either way if I don't get an answer by Friday afternoon I'll call next Monday. Project I'm on is about done so I'll have some free time by then. I'd rather get initial thoughts from them than playing with shims until I get it right.
Nvm thought it was just karl ( still all the valving from ads i've seen is usually very good)
Take everything i say with a grain of salt lol
 

4runner DOA

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Nvm thought it was just karl ( still all the valving from ads i've seen is usually very good)
Take everything i say with a grain of salt lol
I only remember Keith because we were talking about it at camp last trip out and the guy we were out with said he had been talking with Keith alot for tuning for his 3rd gen. @AssBurns has posted some pics of Robert's 3rd gen runner. They're currently doing a trailing arm set up on it after cutting off the 4 link set up.
 
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I only remember Keith because we were talking about it at camp last trip out and the guy we were out with said he had been talking with Keith alot for tuning for his 3rd gen. @AssBurns has posted some pics of Robert's 3rd gen runner. They're currently doing a trailing arm set up on it after cutting off the 4 link set up.
Dunno any other names. Just karl from seeing him do all their rebuilds and lotsa tuning on ig mcmasterfabber and shocktalk
 
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To fill yall in a lil on the basic basics.. shocks just take the kinetic energy of your vehicle smackin stuff at speed and use the hydraulic resistance of the shims to transfer it to thermal energy in the shock oil. That energy radiates out of the shock instead of passing on to the chassis. This is why you generally don't see lil yotas on huge shocks because the vehicle doesn't have enough weight to heat up the oil in those shocks with reasonable valving.
Shocks cold during their usual use - too big/stiff, not doing enough work (in literal sense of the word work)
Shocks hot during usual use - too small/soft, doing too much work
Way more details to it in the nitty gritty but thats the idea behind it
Similar to a race tire/brake set up in F1. They only work once up to racing temps.
The set up has to be right for the usage. A one size fits all approach will be a compromise at best, and never work properly under any setting at worst.
 

4runner DOA

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Similar to a race tire/brake set up in F1. They only work once up to racing temps.
The set up has to be right for the usage. A one size fits all approach will be a compromise at best, and never work properly under any setting at worst.
Most of the trails we hit are right off Pavement from the gas stations so shocks should be warm from the drive out (2-4 or 6 hours)
 
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Most of the trails we hit are right off Pavement from the gas stations so shocks should be warm from the drive out (2-4 or 6 hours)
In our set ups yes. But neither of us has 3.0s with bypasses either.
But even PAs shitty roads won't warm my shit up enough for a spirited high speed run that I can barely do on this coast. Last time I hauled ass down a trail like @Arcticelf does I ripped the sidewall out of a tire.
 

4runner DOA

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In our set ups yes. But neither of us has 3.0s with bypasses either.
But even PAs shitty roads won't warm my shit up enough for a spirited high speed run that I can barely do on this coast. Last time I hauled ass down a trail like @Arcticelf does I ripped the sidewall out of a tire.
Sounds like trying to keep up with @Airdog it just isn't happening. When there's a section that I know he can bomb along, I get out of the way.
 
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They still work cold, it's not *that* critical of an operating temp window. Just won't work as well as hitting the specific driving and terrain they're valved for. Also highlights how cool adjusters are.
Too hot is a bit more critical since you'll cook your seals eventually but like stair said that's hard to even do to big shocks in a lot of places unless the valving is wayyy off or you're seriously thrashing
 

Arcticelf

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In our set ups yes. But neither of us has 3.0s with bypasses either.
But even PAs shitty roads won't warm my shit up enough for a spirited high speed run that I can barely do on this coast. Last time I hauled ass down a trail like @Arcticelf does I ripped the sidewall out of a tire.
And the last time I followed you up a trail I ended up getting winched off a tree. :)

Different applications and build goals.
 
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