Shock Tech

WrenchnWheel

Instagram: @Wrench.n.Wheel
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
174
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31
Location
Sacramento, CA
I've recently been doing tons of research on upgrading the suspension on my front end and settled for the 4runner Bilstein 6112s with 650lb springs set to 7th perch on drivers side and 6th on passengers side. Pics will be posted upon install next week.

Why did I go with these? Digressive is better for highway and slow crawling, Progressive is better for high-speed desert and whoops. Bilsteins are digressive and Kings would've cost me $400 more just for the front end.
 

OlDirtyBilly

Risky Business Outdoors
Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Messages
66
Location
Telluride, CO
I've recently been doing tons of research on upgrading the suspension on my front end and settled for the 4runner Bilstein 6112s with 650lb springs set to 7th perch on drivers side and 6th on passengers side. Pics will be posted upon install next week.

Why did I go with these? Digressive is better for highway and slow crawling, Progressive is better for high-speed desert and whoops. Bilsteins are digressive and Kings would've cost me $400 more just for the front end.

I just put the 6112s on mine and love them so far. Put tundra 5100s and dobinson coils on the rear and the rebound is a little too fast but huge improvement over worn out 4600s
 

WrenchnWheel

Instagram: @Wrench.n.Wheel
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
174
Age
31
Location
Sacramento, CA
I just put the 6112s on mine and love them so far. Put tundra 5100s and dobinson coils on the rear and the rebound is a little too fast but huge improvement over worn out 4600s
I have the tundra 5100s in the Back with OME 2891s in the rear, they need some weight added on to be perfect. Waiting on @eimkeith to finish up that rear bumper. :playball:
 

Arcticelf

Head BFH Operator at Gray Man Fab
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
1,167
Location
DelCo PA
I've recently been doing tons of research on upgrading the suspension on my front end and settled for the 4runner Bilstein 6112s with 650lb springs set to 7th perch on drivers side and 6th on passengers side. Pics will be posted upon install next week.

Why did I go with these? Digressive is better for highway and slow crawling, Progressive is better for high-speed desert and whoops. Bilsteins are digressive and Kings would've cost me $400 more just for the front end.

$400 is real money, and bilstein is good stuff.

I'm less sold on the digressive shocks though, but that's mostly based on my experience with stock valved ICONS on my truck and a few others. Both slow speed and high speed. I'm very willing to believe that the problem is "stock valved" not "digressive" though.
 

AssBurns

will wheel for beer
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Yucaipa, CA
$400 is real money, and bilstein is good stuff.

I'm less sold on the digressive shocks though, but that's mostly based on my experience with stock valved ICONS on my truck and a few others. Both slow speed and high speed. I'm very willing to believe that the problem is "stock valved" not "digressive" though.
I agree. You can make a digressive shock perform very well with the right valving, but based on many people’s experiences that I’ve heard, digressive shocks seem to perform better when valved to have more progressive properties. Hence why many manufacturers and off-roaders prefer progressive pistons to start with.
 

azmtnbiker45

Beer, the nectar of life
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
978
Location
Chandler
$400 is real money, and bilstein is good stuff.

I'm less sold on the digressive shocks though, but that's mostly based on my experience with stock valved ICONS on my truck and a few others. Both slow speed and high speed. I'm very willing to believe that the problem is "stock valved" not "digressive" though.
That is one of my complaints with my Icon's and would like to changed to more progressive once they need redone. That won't be for a long time though since they have only been on the truck for about a year and I don't wheel that hard.
 

WrenchnWheel

Instagram: @Wrench.n.Wheel
Joined
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Messages
174
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Sacramento, CA
That is one of my complaints with my Icon's and would like to changed to more progressive once they need redone. That won't be for a long time though since they have only been on the truck for about a year and I don't wheel that hard.
I agree. You can make a digressive shock perform very well with the right valving, but based on many people’s experiences that I’ve heard, digressive shocks seem to perform better when valved to have more progressive properties. Hence why many manufacturers and off-roaders prefer progressive pistons to start with.

It just comes down to the two camps, Icon/Bilstein vs Fox/King - digressive vs progressive. I've personally haven't heard much good about icon but everyone runs Bilstein, granted everyone that runs Bilstein are typically running their entry level systems. When you're jumping into King/Fox territory you are paying a decent chunk of change and therefore the price requires the suspension to be better.
 

4runner DOA

Hold my beer
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It just comes down to the two camps, Icon/Bilstein vs Fox/King - digressive vs progressive. I've personally haven't heard much good about icon but everyone runs Bilstein, granted everyone that runs Bilstein are typically running their entry level systems. When you're jumping into King/Fox territory you are paying a decent chunk of change and therefore the price requires the suspension to be better.

No complaints about my icons, they just couldn't keep up with what I was doing and it wasn't worth a revalve since I was running no resi in front and 2.0s with resi in the rear. Made more sense to get 2.5s with resis so I had more options later down the road.
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
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Grand Junction
Can anyone provide insight to Bilstiens valving numbers? I recently installed 10" travel Bilstien 5165's outboard on my 3rd gen runner and I am smacking the piss out of the bumps quite often even in normal driving around town. I only have a few inches of uptravel before my bumpstops start to make contact. I have Durobumps on order which should help over the oem bumps but I may need to change the valving as well. The valving of the shocks are labeled as 255/70 (compression/rebound) and I would like to change the valving to improve ride. Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated to understanding what variation of shim stacks will help me out.
 

AssBurns

will wheel for beer
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Can anyone provide insight to Bilstiens valving numbers? I recently installed 10" travel Bilstien 5165's outboard on my 3rd gen runner and I am smacking the piss out of the bumps quite often even in normal driving around town. I only have a few inches of uptravel before my bumpstops start to make contact. I have Durobumps on order which should help over the oem bumps but I may need to change the valving as well. The valving of the shocks are labeled as 255/70 (compression/rebound) and I would like to change the valving to improve ride. Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated to understanding what variation of shim stacks will help me out.
So a couple things. First, the Bilstein 5165's cannot be revalved. You'll need to replace the whole shock with something with stiffer valving. Second, 255/70 is Bilsteins standard shock valving, so a large majority of their shocks have the same valving, just different lengths according to the application.
If you want to get into revalving shocks, you'll need to spend a little extra coin to get something that can be tuned. Bilstein has the 7100 series shocks that are their entry level rebuildable shocks, but I honestly wouldn't waste your time buying Bilsteins if you are wanting to get into tuning your own shocks. The parts aren't as cheap or easy to find, and finding information on tuning their shocks is almost non-existent. It's worth spending the extra coin on any of the other top manufactures to have easier access to parts, valve stacks, and tuning information.
I have the 7100's and I can't really complain about the performance at all. I've beat the hell out of them and the shafts are still in good shape, unlike what I've seen from other manufacturers. The biggest complaint is the lack of support. I've gotten to the point that I'd rather just buy new shocks with stiffer valving than try to mess with these.
 

Dukestaco

Stirring the pot 24/7
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
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7,472
Location
Tucson
Can anyone provide insight to Bilstiens valving numbers? I recently installed 10" travel Bilstien 5165's outboard on my 3rd gen runner and I am smacking the piss out of the bumps quite often even in normal driving around town. I only have a few inches of uptravel before my bumpstops start to make contact. I have Durobumps on order which should help over the oem bumps but I may need to change the valving as well. The valving of the shocks are labeled as 255/70 (compression/rebound) and I would like to change the valving to improve ride. Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated to understanding what variation of shim stacks will help me out.
This doesn't sound like a valving issue. What coil spring are you using. Stock weight 4runner ?
 

Arcticelf

Head BFH Operator at Gray Man Fab
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
1,167
Location
DelCo PA
Can anyone provide insight to Bilstiens valving numbers? I recently installed 10" travel Bilstien 5165's outboard on my 3rd gen runner and I am smacking the piss out of the bumps quite often even in normal driving around town. I only have a few inches of uptravel before my bumpstops start to make contact. I have Durobumps on order which should help over the oem bumps but I may need to change the valving as well. The valving of the shocks are labeled as 255/70 (compression/rebound) and I would like to change the valving to improve ride. Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated to understanding what variation of shim stacks will help me out.

There's two things to look at: are you just blowing through all your up travel? Then you need a stiffer compression stack. Or is the shock "packing" over a series of medium hits then smacking the bump? That may call for more compression, but definitely calls for lighter rebound valving.

I had the latter problem
 

WrenchnWheel

Instagram: @Wrench.n.Wheel
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
174
Age
31
Location
Sacramento, CA
Can anyone provide insight to Bilstiens valving numbers? I recently installed 10" travel Bilstien 5165's outboard on my 3rd gen runner and I am smacking the piss out of the bumps quite often even in normal driving around town. I only have a few inches of uptravel before my bumpstops start to make contact. I have Durobumps on order which should help over the oem bumps but I may need to change the valving as well. The valving of the shocks are labeled as 255/70 (compression/rebound) and I would like to change the valving to improve ride. Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated to understanding what variation of shim stacks will help me out.

You are confusing what spring rate is supposed to do with what your valving does, valving controls the speed at how fast your spring compress and rebound, just up and down, your issue with contacting bump stops means your spring is too low rated to handle the weight of the rear of your runner. The shock just either makes that happen fast or slow.
 

AssBurns

will wheel for beer
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Messages
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You are confusing what spring rate is supposed to do with what your valving does, valving controls the speed at how fast your spring compress and rebound, just up and down, your issue with contacting bump stops means your spring is too low rated to handle the weight of the rear of your runner. The shock just either makes that happen fast or slow.
Sounds like he either needs more lift in the rear to keep off the bumps (more up travel), or he needs stiffer compression valving to keep off the bumps. I like lower ride height, but making the ass end too stiff with low up travel isn't always the best option for any sort of speed. More lift is probably the cheapest and easiest option.
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
17
Age
27
Location
Grand Junction
So a couple things. First, the Bilstein 5165's cannot be revalved. You'll need to replace the whole shock with something with stiffer valving. Second, 255/70 is Bilsteins standard shock valving, so a large majority of their shocks have the same valving, just different lengths according to the application.
If you want to get into revalving shocks, you'll need to spend a little extra coin to get something that can be tuned. Bilstein has the 7100 series shocks that are their entry level rebuildable shocks, but I honestly wouldn't waste your time buying Bilsteins if you are wanting to get into tuning your own shocks. The parts aren't as cheap or easy to find, and finding information on tuning their shocks is almost non-existent. It's worth spending the extra coin on any of the other top manufactures to have easier access to parts, valve stacks, and tuning information.
I have the 7100's and I can't really complain about the performance at all. I've beat the hell out of them and the shafts are still in good shape, unlike what I've seen from other manufacturers. The biggest complaint is the lack of support. I've gotten to the point that I'd rather just buy new shocks with stiffer valving than try to mess with these.

It is my understanding 5165's can be easily re-valved by the manufacturer. It is also possible to add a schrader valve to adjust nitrogen pressures on the reservoir. I've had a multitude of different springs and shocks on my runner and never seem to be able to find out something that works well.

I have had Superflex's with both bilstien 5100 and toytec boss shocks. The 5100/superflex combo bottomed out quite often. I didn't bottom out as often with the boss shocks. The boss shocks rode a million times better than the bilstien 5100's, but I still contacted the bumps regularly but a tolerable amount.


I desired more lift and switched my coils to the OME 861's with the boss shocks. I never bottomed out unless articulating on these coils but they handled like shit on the highway and I had an intolerable amount of body roll. I was lifting a font tire rather often when turning and desired more highway worth handling. In addition I snapped two boss socks at the rod end mount running this setup but got them warrantied.

That leads me to the OME 906 coils. I got these for dirt cheap off craigslist but they couldn't hold weight for shit. Only ran these for about two weeks but they still bottomed less on the boss shocks than my current setup.

Current setup is OME 890's with the Bilstien 5165's. These worked well with the boss shocks but after snapping a final rod end outside my warranty period I made the switch to 5165's. I like the handling and minimal lift i get with the 906's but my favorite springs have been the superflex's. I may have to return to those and contact bilstein to talk about a re-valve based on my application.
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
17
Age
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Location
Grand Junction
You are confusing what spring rate is supposed to do with what your valving does, valving controls the speed at how fast your spring compress and rebound, just up and down, your issue with contacting bump stops means your spring is too low rated to handle the weight of the rear of your runner. The shock just either makes that happen fast or slow.

Increase my compression to slow the compression stroke. I want to keep my runner low instead of just throwing landcruiser coils on that are overkill for my application.
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
17
Age
27
Location
Grand Junction
There's two things to look at: are you just blowing through all your up travel? Then you need a stiffer compression stack. Or is the shock "packing" over a series of medium hits then smacking the bump? That may call for more compression, but definitely calls for lighter rebound valving.

I had the latter problem

Blowing through the entire compression stroke on a single bump.

Ex: A concrete wash pan leaving a gas station entering the roadway will be enough to blow through the compression stroke.
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
17
Age
27
Location
Grand Junction
This doesn't sound like a valving issue. What coil spring are you using. Stock weight 4runner ?

See above:

Im on OME 906's currently. Weight setup consists of swingout bumper, full skids, and winch bumper. Still less weight then some people run on these coils.
 
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